Results and a Question
I managed a small cash of $565.80 in this one.
Close to the money in Razz but faltered towards the end.WCOOP-12: $215 HORSE, $200K guaranteed and WCOOP-13: $530 PL Hold'em, $400K guaranteed are tonight.
Now for the question :-
You are playing in a heads up sit and go. You join the game and you see that your opponent is sitting out. He actually sits out for the entire length of the match giving you a free win. Several days later he appears in one of your tourneys asking for his money back...
Taking the following points into consideration should you pay the person back :-
1. You don't know this person at all.
2. He claims he would have given you, your money back.
3. You know that if it was the opposite way round you would not have asked for your money back.
4. You suspect that when you are disconnected that most of the time you will not get your money back nor would you even try but if you did most people would almost certainly refuse.
5. It is a substantial amount of money that is meaningful to you and to him.
Thoughts in comments please.
posted by TillerMaN | 1:25 PM
37 Comments:
Your last statement makes it a little more interesting(given it is such a large sum with meaning to both), however it is really his problem so you have no in my opinion etiquitte or respect reasons to give him it back. The only reason i could see for you to give this back is if morally this is bothering you. I know i havent answered the question but this is how id think about it.
goblinhat
after opinion it should say "no" lol
goblinhat
"I personally believe"...
This has to be a -EV proposition as you can have no guarantee you would be paid back at all in the reverse situation.
I’d be too embarrassed to ask for the money back as it shows extreme weakness - if you are going to invest large sums playing heads up sit and go’s it’s your responsibility to have backup internet connections in place - the poker sites have a no refund policy in those situations so why should a player have to refund because you are too stupid to care of your business? just my 2 cents worth...
I would never pay him back. Only circumstance in which I would is if I knew him and trusted him to the point where I know he would give my money back.
be nice to him, give them back.
if you find a wallet in the street, would you send it back to the owner?
Taking the following points into consideration:-
1. You don't know this person at all.
2. You suspect that when you lost your wallet that most of the time you will not get your money back
3. It is a substantial amount of money that is meaningful to you and to him.
playhard
I like the wallet comment, although the difference is, in poker, you put money in, he puts money in, and you fight for it.
With dropping a wallet, you typically don't accidentally lose your wallet, he accidentally loses his, and they knowingly you fight for them both LOL.
Don't give it back, you pay to play. Poker is a tough game, that's part of it. What next, he wasn't feeling like playing? He was drunk? When / where do you draw the line?
I think I'd give it back and I feel you should do it too for yourself.
The fact that you ask the questions means you're thinking about it. You'd feel better by giving it back, even though it's alot of money.
And also, you get extra karma! :D
And who knows, maybe you end up having that guy doing you a huge favor one day.
who's the guy?
As an alternative way to settle the issue. Why don't you ask for the same amount of money as a % of him in the next big comp he plays in. Then you both win out of it. He gets his money, you get a stake in an 'excellent' tournament player.
Or just keep the money. All SnG players who play at high stakes should have a back up!
MrSpeed
The amount does not matter, so the last part does not even factor into my decision making. He should never play with an amount that he can't lose due to "variance". That includes internet disconnection and etc..
He only says he would have given it back because he wants to get it back. But if he does think that, he's naive to think he'll get it back 99% of the time.
I let the site policies deal with this. This is not your responsibility, nor should you feel guilty. Because you'll find yourself disconnected and broke too sometimes.
If I knew the guy(doesn't have to be personally, maybe through a friend), I would probably strongly consider it. Since I know nothing, this is not even a remote consideration. And I think I'm a pretty nice guy in general.
do you guys know why tillerman is my hero?
cause he is going to give 100% of his buy-in back!!!
In starcraft II there will be a hero based on tillerman.
playhard
are u the guy playhard?
I would give him something like 90% of it. Not the full amount. You're wasting some of your time with this and it has a price. Giving all of it back if he's an a**hole that would not have done the same (even if he says so, you can't know). So you keep 10%, just in case he's a pathetical liar. To me that seems fair enough. And if I was the guy I'd be *very* happy to get 90% back.
In a situation like this, if the person asked very politely and didn't sound like I was robbing him if I didn't agree, I could see myself offering him 50% of it back.
Why only 50%? Well I'm being fair to him allowing some of his lost money back but then he has got to be fair with me and accept that I also wasted some time having to blind him out before I could start another HU SNG. (If you are not comfortable playing 2 SNG's you do not start another one before you have blinded him out in case he suddenly comes back)
Much dependant on how the guy is I could see myself giving him it all back and keeping it all. But generally I would suggest 50%/50%, I think you are then being both nice to him, and fair.
Imo anyways.
Don't give it back. There's an inherent risk to playing online poker and included in that risk is a lose of Internet connectivity. If it was someone I play with very frequently I might consider it but for a complete stranger with no history, forget it.
As a general principle you should repay less rake. You didn't do anything for the money so you don't deserve it. In fact you should have transferred to the player unprompted. That being said there are situations that could occur that make the correct approach problematic, the most likely being a huge downswing making it actually difficult for you to repay, but as I said above you should have transferred less rake after the tourney.
Of course you are not obliged to repay, but it is the correct thing to do.
As an aside if the player turned up late and you had taken half his chips - would you agree a chop less rake?
What a crock of shit in the above post, was this posted by the guy who is asking for the money back I wonder?
TillerMaN "didn't do anything for the money" apart from show up to play with a working internet connection prepared to win or lose - he put his money at risk already fair and square. If his internet went down I cannot imagine him chasing the other guy down to beg for his money back & I doubt he would be stupid enough to play Sit and Goes with no backup connection...
I think this he's retarded for asking this and you should NOT give his money back, no way
too drunk to give arguments but you're pretty awesome tillerman
Dont even think about giving it back. You owe him nothing. CAVEAT EMPTOR baby, let the buyer beware. It's his problem, not yours, if he's looking for sentiment he's in the WRONG game. End of story.
JC
Absolutely not your problem.
Had a rethink.
If you got disconnected in a big pot in a cash game with the nuts. Would he send you the cash if you showed him a screen shot? No.
Therefore, i'd keep my cash.
MrSpeed.
You guys don't understand the difference between capital and income. A good player like Till makes income and a bad player loses his capital. An extra $x doesn't really make any difference to a good player so he doesn't need it, a bad player on the other hand needs every penny to postpone the inevitable busto. You can try to justify keeping the money by using any number of excuses, but the bottom line is that only losers need to keep it.
You moron. Have you ever heard of living expenses?
Did you wait at all and give him a chance to reconnect or did you feverishly twat the raise button and don't show winning hand button every hand?
If number 1 then give him a bit back but tell him to sort out an alternative connection with the money.
If number 2 then no, balls to him you took advanteage and didn't feel any guilt until he appeared and you should continue to not give a fuck.
Glad your updating again, i had to drop your link but will put it back up soon.
All of you whiny little bitches saying Tiller has some obligation to give the money back should remember this is the GAMBLING business and its a harsh business. If someone does a no show in one of your little girls $50 Sit and Gos then asks you for the money back later are you going to give them it? Are you fuck... wake up!
"You moron. Have you ever heard of living expenses?"
lol you gone busto cos you couldn't earn enough to cover your living expenses? That still makes you a life loser - get a job.
Keep it. You would have beat him anyway because you would have employed PP.
PPOK!
If some registers for a sng that involves a meaningful amount of money to them and forgets about it then screw them, unless he was a reg I knew then not a chance I'd give them any cash.
Keep it, simply because the chance of you getting it back if it was the other way around is close to zero
Iain,
No way do you give the money back IMHO. Yes it's frustraiting for the guy that lost his cash through default but the crucial thing is we all have internet connection problems from time to time and people have to accept its part of the online game.
Assuming that you both have equal quality of internet service then variance dictates it'll all work out in the long run.
Would you have asked him for the money back, if you where the one disconnected? I don`t think so.
I would only give it back if I knew the guy, or you have reasons to believe he would have given it back if it would be the other way around.
There was a very similar case bout 2 weeks ago involving empiremaker, threat was posted on 2+2. You can look it up.
Brgds,
the clêaner
I can't find this post, perhaps you can link me to it Cleaner. Thx.
I thought it was empiremaker2 but was mistaken, here`s the link.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=plnlpoker&Number=11924174&Searchpage=3&Main=11914163&Words=EmpireMaker2&topic=&Search=true#Post11924174
No need to give it back. I disconnected in one last night but unfortunately it is just tough s**t. One buy-in is not exactly going to break the bank.
It would be funny to hear him trying to claim a bunch of cash from his ISP though!
If you believe in Karma then give it back. I think you will feel better and you will have a clearer conscious.
These type of things can come back to haunt you. Personally, however, I'd keep the money as I'm struggling at the moment.
I would give it back or most of it.
Nevertheless, you can think about it the other way arround: You win because of his inet this time, you might loose it the same way, he might re-win it the same way. just probabilities.
If you have failover connection, then you just got your investment payed back. He did not do the investment and got fined for it.
On betfair some guy i would play 20 times a day at some points disconnected one game and i gave him all his chips back and we started over. Two days later I lost connection and the guy said haha tough shit crybaby. Another time in a $1500 h u sit and go a guy had connection problems and lost over half of his stack, i gave him all the chips back and he never said thank you. Yet after all of this some guy had connection problems the other day, I have emailed betfair asking that if they did not refund him could they take the money from my account and put it straight into his. The easiest way probably would be to play with no chat on and then you never feel obliged to worry about other peoples problems
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