Poker News
Well it seems that Andy Beal has been beaten by Phil Ivey for what looks to be over $15,000,000. The last $10,000,000 being won in the space of just 4 hours with Andy Beal claiming he is quitting poker forever(he has said this before).
If you read the book by Michael Craig - Professor, the Banker, and the Suicide King : Inside the Richest Poker Game of All Time, you will get all the background info you need on this running match between Andy Beal and a conglomerate of Vegas Pro's.
Michael Craig posted some news about the match on the forums at Bluff Magazine with this being one of his latest posts :-
Again, and for the last time, I apologize for the delay. Here are the highlights:
1. They played $50,000-$100,000. Ivey wanted the higher limit and, of course, Beal wanted it. Ivey convinced the pros, who I think were very divided about it. And even though Andy lost $10 million today, he made a point of thanking Phil at the end and saying, completely sincerely, "Thanks for getting the stakes raised to fifty and one hundred." Not sarcastically, but honestly.
2. Andy was ahead by $1-2 million for the first half of the match. Like the first two days, Phil controlled the action by always raising, always betting, but Andy had him timed very well for picking him off.
3. In a space of 3 hands, Phil made back most of that deficit. Big pots, concealed strength, wicked rivers, etc. etc. etc. (See the May issue of BLUFF for the details.) But Phil took over the lead and just ACCELERATED.
4. He made the $10 million in about 4 hours. (I'll check my notes after returning home and get you an "exact" or you'll read it in my May story, but Andy had the lead for half and Phil had the lead for half. But Phil had it for the better half, and the bigger half.)
5. The game became wild, reckless, and unrelentingly aggressive. The timing Andy had in picking Phil off had failed. Andy got some river suck-outs but, now behind, probably became despirited when he was the victim. (Phil, in contrast, was not affected in the least when Andy sucked out. So I can't tell you if Andy took more bad beats or just got affected by it more.) But with constant reraising and nobody folding, the river will decide a lot of hands. Phil won more of those, which made the game just that much more out of control.
6. It finished up about 45 minutes before my first post. Andy said he's done with poker for ever. One of the pros said he would bet me that Andy will be back within six months. It's not a matter I'll speculate about. (I will tell you, though, that Andy Beal gave me his pocket watch at the end. Say what you will but he BELIEVES that he's done.)
7. Andy was a total gentleman, and so was Phil Ivey, and so were the several pros in the room, who came because they were concerned about how their investment was doing but kept discretely hidden so not to appear to be gloating over the result.
I'm heading for home and may try to post something late, late, late tonight, or maybe tomorrow. But you're going to be looking at one helluva story for the April issue of BLUFF, about Andy's first two trips to Vegas this month, and a very interesting conclusion which I think BLUFF will run in May.
I consider myself lucky to know Andy Beal and to have gotten to see all this from this vantage point. I saw a lot of remarkable play by the pros, but I have to admit that sitting across a table from Phil Ivey for three days was MIND BLOWING. I don't think anyone has ever tried to show that or describe that. Maybe I'll give it a shot.
Michael Craig
In other news it seems that ZeeJustin has had all his PartyPoker accounts closed with all funds in them being seized to the tune of nearly $100,000. Oops! ZeeJustin(Justin Bonomo), posted his response to the situation on the forums at Twoplustwo.com.
Some excerpts I want to comment on :-
Secondly, almost all of you have broken the rules at some point. How many of you have created a second account for rakeback? Neither creating a second account nor receiving rakeback is allowed. Both are expressly forbidden. Maybe you will all see things my way once all your money is seized for doing that. If IÂm a cheater, so are you.
If you are a saint like CSC claims to be, kudos to you. You are in the minority, and are certainly upstanding citizens. I commend you on following Party's rules and not receiving rakeback. Most of us are too greedy to pass up money that easy.
He is in the minority for sure, he has a skewed view on this because he is to close to it and perhaps all his close internet buddies do the same. However, it is clear that he is in a tiny minority of players or even pros who enter multiple times in a big tourney. I've never done it nor even considered it and none of my close internet buddies have done it either. As far as creating multiple accounts for rakeback is concerned, this is not even in the same ballpark. You can do this with the same name and details, then Party will phone you and say you can't have two accounts and will close your original and even transfer the money over to your new account for you. They don't give a crap about this and neither do other sites. You certainly won't have any money seized nor will you have any advantage over the other players or be doing anything unethical.
I have been at the same table as myself. For what it's worth, my standard protocol has been to increase my number of tables when this happens. As most of you know, I will very rarely be playing fewer than six tables at a time. If I had 6 tables open and two of my accounts were brought to the same table, I would simply open up 4-6 more SNGs. I felt that this would negate my unethical advantage.
He felt unethical about playing on the same table with his multiple accounts so just opened more tables to distract himself from getting an advantage? That is quite a weird justification/response to it. How about just don't cheat? Lol.
Anyway, I don't think it is such a big deal and clearly he has been hugely punished for getting caught. The advantage you get for doing those sorts of things are slim and any advantage he has attained have been fully negated with 100k being seized back. However, to try and justify it, is silly too. It is clearly wrong and you should just suck it down and move on!
If you read the book by Michael Craig - Professor, the Banker, and the Suicide King : Inside the Richest Poker Game of All Time, you will get all the background info you need on this running match between Andy Beal and a conglomerate of Vegas Pro's.
Michael Craig posted some news about the match on the forums at Bluff Magazine with this being one of his latest posts :-
Again, and for the last time, I apologize for the delay. Here are the highlights:
1. They played $50,000-$100,000. Ivey wanted the higher limit and, of course, Beal wanted it. Ivey convinced the pros, who I think were very divided about it. And even though Andy lost $10 million today, he made a point of thanking Phil at the end and saying, completely sincerely, "Thanks for getting the stakes raised to fifty and one hundred." Not sarcastically, but honestly.
2. Andy was ahead by $1-2 million for the first half of the match. Like the first two days, Phil controlled the action by always raising, always betting, but Andy had him timed very well for picking him off.
3. In a space of 3 hands, Phil made back most of that deficit. Big pots, concealed strength, wicked rivers, etc. etc. etc. (See the May issue of BLUFF for the details.) But Phil took over the lead and just ACCELERATED.
4. He made the $10 million in about 4 hours. (I'll check my notes after returning home and get you an "exact" or you'll read it in my May story, but Andy had the lead for half and Phil had the lead for half. But Phil had it for the better half, and the bigger half.)
5. The game became wild, reckless, and unrelentingly aggressive. The timing Andy had in picking Phil off had failed. Andy got some river suck-outs but, now behind, probably became despirited when he was the victim. (Phil, in contrast, was not affected in the least when Andy sucked out. So I can't tell you if Andy took more bad beats or just got affected by it more.) But with constant reraising and nobody folding, the river will decide a lot of hands. Phil won more of those, which made the game just that much more out of control.
6. It finished up about 45 minutes before my first post. Andy said he's done with poker for ever. One of the pros said he would bet me that Andy will be back within six months. It's not a matter I'll speculate about. (I will tell you, though, that Andy Beal gave me his pocket watch at the end. Say what you will but he BELIEVES that he's done.)
7. Andy was a total gentleman, and so was Phil Ivey, and so were the several pros in the room, who came because they were concerned about how their investment was doing but kept discretely hidden so not to appear to be gloating over the result.
I'm heading for home and may try to post something late, late, late tonight, or maybe tomorrow. But you're going to be looking at one helluva story for the April issue of BLUFF, about Andy's first two trips to Vegas this month, and a very interesting conclusion which I think BLUFF will run in May.
I consider myself lucky to know Andy Beal and to have gotten to see all this from this vantage point. I saw a lot of remarkable play by the pros, but I have to admit that sitting across a table from Phil Ivey for three days was MIND BLOWING. I don't think anyone has ever tried to show that or describe that. Maybe I'll give it a shot.
Michael Craig
In other news it seems that ZeeJustin has had all his PartyPoker accounts closed with all funds in them being seized to the tune of nearly $100,000. Oops! ZeeJustin(Justin Bonomo), posted his response to the situation on the forums at Twoplustwo.com.
Some excerpts I want to comment on :-
Secondly, almost all of you have broken the rules at some point. How many of you have created a second account for rakeback? Neither creating a second account nor receiving rakeback is allowed. Both are expressly forbidden. Maybe you will all see things my way once all your money is seized for doing that. If IÂm a cheater, so are you.
If you are a saint like CSC claims to be, kudos to you. You are in the minority, and are certainly upstanding citizens. I commend you on following Party's rules and not receiving rakeback. Most of us are too greedy to pass up money that easy.
He is in the minority for sure, he has a skewed view on this because he is to close to it and perhaps all his close internet buddies do the same. However, it is clear that he is in a tiny minority of players or even pros who enter multiple times in a big tourney. I've never done it nor even considered it and none of my close internet buddies have done it either. As far as creating multiple accounts for rakeback is concerned, this is not even in the same ballpark. You can do this with the same name and details, then Party will phone you and say you can't have two accounts and will close your original and even transfer the money over to your new account for you. They don't give a crap about this and neither do other sites. You certainly won't have any money seized nor will you have any advantage over the other players or be doing anything unethical.
I have been at the same table as myself. For what it's worth, my standard protocol has been to increase my number of tables when this happens. As most of you know, I will very rarely be playing fewer than six tables at a time. If I had 6 tables open and two of my accounts were brought to the same table, I would simply open up 4-6 more SNGs. I felt that this would negate my unethical advantage.
He felt unethical about playing on the same table with his multiple accounts so just opened more tables to distract himself from getting an advantage? That is quite a weird justification/response to it. How about just don't cheat? Lol.
Anyway, I don't think it is such a big deal and clearly he has been hugely punished for getting caught. The advantage you get for doing those sorts of things are slim and any advantage he has attained have been fully negated with 100k being seized back. However, to try and justify it, is silly too. It is clearly wrong and you should just suck it down and move on!
posted by TillerMaN | 1:41 AM
22 Comments:
As unethical as it was, you have to admit it's brutal for them to take away 100,000+ from him. This after JJProdigy lost over 100 grand for blurting out that he had used a different account.... ouch
If Party doesn't redistribute the money, they are basically stealing. This isn't terrorists money, and it doesn't belong Party in my opinion. This whole internet gambling is still a very grey area, time to legalize or shut it down. And on the other side, playing with Pokerace Hud feels like playing with a map/wallhack on, you can guess accurately what your opponent's doing, imho now that's a real unfair advantage.
Any idea how many pros are in the conglomerate and how it was all split up? I wonder how much each of them got paid.. seems like 15 million would go a long way.
"If Party doesn't redistribute the money, they are basically stealing."
You are a fucking idiot if you believe this.
Justin is a good guy (and is actually my neighbor fwiw, I like him) however you can not really think they are "Stealing" money. If anything he stole EV from everyone else who entered with only one account. Please get learned.
cheating never pays off ? :) at least that what it seems^^
theyh were 10 mil in debt since when beal came to vegas at the beginning of february, so only 6.5 of the 16.5 that phil ivey won is profit, split between them really isn't that much to each person.
Since we are on the topic of cheating, can I ask you a question Tiller? There was a big thread on 2p2 about twin-caracas softplaying/colluding with his friends, telling each other hands, telling his friends to fold, checking hands down.
I know you guys are friends on a first name basis, and you probably use IM's. So its not to far fetched to assume you probably softplayed/colluded with him?
I know you would never admit it.. anyways I like your blog and I used to play BW too, so we have a few things in common.
It is far fetched to say I colluded with him but you are right to say that I softplay him. I went into an agreement with him 2 years ago after we met in Las Vegas where he ased me to softplay. Never really thought it through as it doesn't negatively affect anyone elses expectation nor is it against the pokersites rules.
However, it does sometimes give the game a bad image and might give the appearance that something untoward is going on and for that reason I won't be entering into any other softplaying arrangements in the future. It is too hard to cancel this sort of arrangement though once it has been made without getting into an awkward situation. So the best rule is just don't bother doing it period.
For anyone who is unfamiliar with softplaying all it means is that once you get heads up with someone you softplay, you both just refuse to bet and check it down. It has zero impact on anyone elses expectation because when it 3 handed or more, the game is played exactly as normal. We have both check raised each other multiple times in multi way pots. Softplaying only occurs once it is heads up. Check, check, check, check. Showdown : Ace full vs Quads 4's always! :)
Even without explicit arrangements like this, natural softplaying ALWAYS occurs in the big games between the best players a "decent" amount of the time. You will see fast checks between two regulars a lot of the time skipping some value bets here and there to get it over and done with and quickly onto the next hand.
If they want to fix something that does affect EV then they should get rid of the rebuy bug at Stars.
However, neither of these are unethical or against the rules as they are both allowed by Pokerstars and you can only play within the rules you are given. Softplaying even if it was against the rules is completely unenforceable which I guess is why it isn't =)
I feel that soft playing is wrong and you shouldn't do it Tiller.
"If Party doesn't redistribute the money, they are basically stealing."
"You are a fucking idiot if you believe this."
I think you missunderstood him. It's not partys money to take. It is the victims money basicly.
Thanks for your honesty Till. A lot of winning poker players believe softplaying is ok, which is definatly debatable. Either way, I'm sure you only did it because of peer pressure and you don't like it.
Keep up the good posts!! =D
"You are a fucking idiot if you believe this.
Justin is a good guy (and is actually my neighbor fwiw, I like him) however you can not really think they are "Stealing" money. If anything he stole EV from everyone else who entered with only one account. Please get learned."
Girl, learn how to read. You missed what he said entirely.
How can you say that soft playing doesnt affect a third player?
Let's say you are in the bb with a flush draw and your soft-playing buddy is on the button with an "outsider" in the middle. You all check to the button who bets, you can happily raise, knowing that when the middle player drops out, the worst that will happen is you will be called with no further action on the turn
softplaying ONLY HAPPENS IN HEADSup Pots for Christ Sake. Reading before posting would be cool.
a cheater by creating multiple accounts and a loser by trying to defend his actions
"If Party doesn't redistribute the money, they are basically stealing."
When registrating @ your pokersite you agree upon them confiscating your money if you violating their rules. So no stealing here, legaly. But still a very hard action.
/ / LeiZ
i'm not really in tune with the poker scene.. but do you think a lot of players team with each other sit at the same table and use ventrilo? skype or something similar? how would this ever be caught?
Multiple accounts in a tournament is cheating, no question about it. All things equal in a balanced universe, the player with more accounts has more chances to win. In the real world, a Great Player with multiple accounts has just increased his chances exponentially. Anyone arguing that he did not cheat is either a cheater themself, or ignorant as to how poker works.
Secondly, SoftPlay is underhanded. Sure, it's only Soft once it is headsup. But think about it, 4 Players with a softplay agreement sitting at a table of 6. They are just like vultures. They are interested in getting the 2 unsuspecting players cash. They basically just sit there waiting for new players to show up and biding their time until they have the nuts, which will of course be at a 2:1 ratio versus the 2 newcomers... again, odds are in their favor.
It hurts to hear Tiller say he does this, I used to respect him as a good player, now I find out he has formed at least one agreement to avoid playing other good players and go after the unknowns....
softplaying ONLY HAPPENS IN HEADSup Pots for Christ Sake. Reading before posting would be cool.
You expect me to believe that this arrangement only comes into play when the 2 players are sitting side by side in the BB and SB and the SB makes up and they check out?? Thats the only way your ever going to get a heads-up pot where no other players are involved. Getting a brain before posting would be cool.
Have you even played High Stakes No Limit before ?! I seriously doubt it, MOST pots are heads up before the flop if there is even a flop at all. With SoftPlay in effect, i know that if my "Partner" raises 3x, And I am the only person left to call, I probably won't call because we won't be making a play for the pot past that. Everyone is just sitting hoping to get into a pot with the newcomers. They aren't going to battle it out with each other, thus risking their money less than they normally would with no collusion going on.
So you agree that you can play aggresively against your partners pre-flop with little chance of being punished? How can that not affect other players?
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